Separation Anxiety IS Fixable with Author Malena DeMartini (Pt. 2)

Leading Separation Anxiety expert, author, and trainer,  Malena DeMartini reassures Doodle parents by sharing how Separation Anxiety IS Fixable.

While Malena outlines what works and what DOESN'T in treating Separation Anxiety, learn why leaving a food or treat toy isn't the answer, how to tell how serious your dog's panic is, and if your dog can just "grow out of it".

Want to dive in and learn much more? Our guest gives our listeners an exclusive and generous discount on the at-home Separation Anxiety program for pet parents!
 
 Self-Paced Course: Mission Possible The online, self-paced course, Mission POSSIBLE is the perfect place to start your separation anxiety journey.  Moderated by CSATs, you’ll learn the ins and outs of Separation Anxiety so you can get started.

Sign Up For Mission Possible at https://malenademartini.com/for-owners/separation-anxiety-in-dogs-mission-possible-online-course/ Use code "doodle22" for 50% off

Listen to Part 1 on Episode 32 where Melena DeMartini discusses what Separation Anxiety is, how the pandemic played (or didn't play) a part, and how it's not YOUR fault.

Find Malena's updated book, Separation Anxiety in Dogs: Next Generation Treatment Protocols and Practices, at all major book retailers. 

Do you know your doodle's learning style? Take our free quiz to find out and make training together easier and more fun! Visit https://thedoodlepro.com/learning now!

Test your Doodle Body Language knowledge with our FREE quiz!
https://thedoodlepro.com/body

Visit instagram.com/thedoodlepro for behind-the-scenes peeks at the doodles Corinne works with daily!

Transcript

[00:00:00] Thank you for joining me for part two of my

[00:00:03] interview with the expert on separation, anxiety and its treatment. Make sure to catch our episode from last week with part one where Malena and I discuss what does separation anxiety look like? Did the pandemic and all of us working from home create an

[00:00:21] epidemic of separation anxiety, or did it give our dogs a unique advantage? 

[00:00:26] What separation anxiety feels like for our dogs. And how to recognize if they are experiencing it today. We're going to dive into what to do if your dog is experiencing separation anxiety. And she's going to bust some myths and explain what not to do. Watch out. There's some of the most common advice that you'll find when you go to Google. 

[00:00:51]

[00:01:42] Stay tuned to the end for an exclusive discount from Malena

[00:01:46] on her program where you can work independently at home. On your dog separation anxiety. Let's dive in. This is a fantastic interview. 

[00:01:54] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: An important piece that Malena drives home over and over in her book and with your trainings directly to pet parents in mission possible 

[00:02:02] is 

[00:02:03] separation. Anxiety is fixable. So when you're talking about suspending absences, having a dog with separation anxiety already feels really isolating. It does.

[00:02:13] That is 

[00:02:14] Malena DeMartini: not forever. It is so nice. 

[00:02:18] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And That should be a 

[00:02:19] Malena DeMartini: relief. It should be. Because I get it not only as a professional having done this for so many years, but I get it as a dog mom too. One of my own dogs suffered from separation anxiety, and that's another story in and of itself.

[00:02:38] But so I understand that overwhelm that exists that, oh my gosh, my dog is six months old. I'm gonna have to manage my life around him for the next 15 years or more. And that is absolutely not the case. We have to remember that. Temporary. The, behavior modification process and the correlating management of the dogs alone, time is temporary.

[00:03:08] And I'm very commonly asked how long is temporary? And unfortunately, I'll get that right out of the way. Now I can't answer because your. Each and every person's dog is an individual. The environment is unique, the dog is unique. The pet parents are unique. There are so many influencing factors.

[00:03:33] So I can't say every dog is through this by X number of however long. What I do tell people when I talk to them initially when they're inquiring for help, when they ask me that question, which they always do, they always say, how long will it take? And I will say, I want you to think in terms of months, not weeks, but I also want you to think in terms of months, not years.

[00:04:05] Because I can't say X number of months. . But I can say that we're not looking at a five year plan here for, most dogs. Sure. There's the occasional outlier as there is in every type of behavior. Yes. But for the most part, we are thinking in terms of months, not years thinking in terms of months, not weeks.

[00:04:29] And you mentioned 

[00:04:30] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: in the book that you see every separation and anxiety case as severe, not related to how much destruction they're doing or how chronic the barking is, but if they're experiencing that level of panic, then we see it as severe and it needs That's right. Care and treatment. 

[00:04:50] Malena DeMartini: That's right.

[00:04:51] There's no. Competition, if you will, on distress. If I break my arm and you break your arm and we're talking about the, pain scale of one to 10. Yes. Are we in competition over that? No. No. It is painful for you and it's painful for me. And , that's the same with anxiety and, distress, right?

[00:05:18] I don't, these dogs are not like they're only worried. No, Panic. Panic is a very, serious experience to go through. And so any level of panic, despite the outward manifestation is important for us to recognize. And when I say that outward manifestation sometimes I'll get calls from people and they'll be like my dog only winds and rules.

[00:05:51] Oh. And I'm like, yeah, let's talk about that because that is panic. I don't care if it doesn't sound, it's not inconveniencing your neighbors. It, is severely impacting your little being. And then we have other people, of course, that contact us and say my dog's ripping down the door and, the neighbors and the landlord and everybody are uhhuh.

[00:06:17] But that doesn't mean that dog is more distressed. It just means that the outward display the way the dog presents is, different. And yes, it's more inconvenient to the client, but let's boil it back down to what the dog is experiencing. And both of those dogs are experiencing something extremely aversive, which is panic and distress and fear.

[00:06:42] What do you say to people 

[00:06:43] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: who say they need to get used to it 

[00:06:46] Malena DeMartini: or they'll grow out of it? Yeah. , first thing the literature tells us they do not grow out of it. And period. Done. Okay. The literature also tells us that in most cases, the worsening of the behavior occurs when the dog is continually exposed to a alone time that is over their panic point, if you will.

[00:07:16] And so do we really wanna take that risk? Do we really wanna take that risk of actually worsening this problem? Yeah. And so I talk to clients about that often and say, listen let's, go backwards a little and talk about this whole temporary situation. , if we put in a little bit of time towards behavior modification now then the next 15 years are foot loose and fancy free where you're not going to have to wor worry about your dog when alone. Yeah. If you say, Ugh I don't wanna do that, it's probably, he'll probably just grow out of it. You risk making the problem exacerbating the issue.

[00:08:02] And you also risk pushing it out and out and out to the point that maybe he, if you don't address it, you will be spending the next 15 years worrying about your dog destroying and vocalizing and urinating and defecating and all the things. Yes. And I really, talk to guardians about let's take care of this now, because later harder period. . Yes. And 

[00:08:32] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: you have 

[00:08:33] Malena DeMartini: a longer road to them feeling peace and you 

[00:08:37] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: We have mentioned a couple 

[00:08:38] Malena DeMartini: missed, one of the 

[00:08:39] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: biggest suggestions that people are given when their dog is experienced se separation anxiety is give them a frozen good old food puzzle.

[00:08:47] So that 

[00:08:47] Malena DeMartini: is still out at the top of the list 

[00:08:50] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: of suggestions and you address it beautifully. Can you talk to us more about 

[00:08:53] Malena DeMartini: that? You bet. So we're talking about food and food puzzles in general. Here. And that you're right, is still the number one recommendation for separation anxiety dogs.

[00:09:08] And there's a multiple. Multifaceted amount of reasons as to why that is actually not the suggestion that we should be making the first, let's just get that one out of the way. The majority of separation anxiety, dogs don't touch the food when they're alone, right? So how is it helping at all, right?

[00:09:37] Yes. So let's just, okay. All those dogs we, get it. We're not using food with them. Now. There are of course, a large percentage of the dog population that are like, if food is present, must consume. And so ll eat when left alone. The idea, which is a logical one, I do understand it. The idea behind giving the dog a food toy is, we think we're associating alone time with something good.

[00:10:11] But let me pose this first two things. One, how many of you with your own separation anxiety dog, or if it's a client that you've seen this, the dog hunkers down with that bully sticker with that toy, and you're like, look, he's fine. He's doing great. And it takes six minutes for him to finish that frozen food toy Uhhuh , and at six minutes and 15 seconds, he's howling.

[00:10:43] So did the food toy actually create the positive association that we think that it was supposed to? No. I would venture to say that it caused a distraction in some ways. . But we can't distract a dog for a four hour absence if he, if we let him eat for four hours, which he won't because he will get satiated.

[00:11:09] But if we let him eat for four hours, we would have a 700 pound dog. We can't do that. So, that's one of the things. the other very important thing and pay attention to this because for the dog pros, they'll get this. For the average dog guardian, this may be a little bit new. We are trying to actually associate alone time with safety, not something fantastical and not food falling from the sky necessarily.

[00:11:39] We want it to be a safe environment when we are teaching a dog, particularly when there's already a feeling of fear, panic, anxiety. with a stimulus. The order of events that we teach things is extremely important. I will, I'll use the example of reactivity because I think it's a little, even a little bit more clear.

[00:12:07] So imagine that your dog is afraid of general strangers and every time you go for a walk, you say, here's some food, because there's gonna be a stranger walking up. Over time the dog will go. cheese means scary person approaching and that is exactly the opposite order of events that we would use in training.

[00:12:40] For those of you that wanna geek out, we talk about antecedent arrangements yeah. But order of events is really what we're talking about here. So if the food item predicts the scary thing before long, the food item is going to be equally as scary as the scary thing. And there's no way that we can, or very few ways that we can give the food after we've walked out the door.

[00:13:08] Like it just by, by virtue of how matter works in this world. And so that whole order of events thing I is backwards. And what we tend to see is dogs that maybe in the beginning were like, yeah, I'll hunker down with this frozen peanut butter food toy. But over time, even the site of mom stuffing that food toy, they start to drool and shake and wine and get distressed, and we don't want to create that kind of association.

[00:13:46] The most important reason though, that food I don't think should be used, at least not in the beginning stages of a protocol, is that. as a means of training and implementing behavior modification. We need to become very good at reading our dog's body language and seeing at what point in time the dog starts to become uncomfortable.

[00:14:15] And then we see that discomfort starts to lead to some fear, anxiety, stress, et cetera. We wanna only train beneath that point where the dog is uncomfortable and if the dog is happily appearing, is the keyword here? Yeah. To be consuming the food. We're like, oh, he's fine for five minutes or however long.

[00:14:41] But what we're doing is muddying the body language that we really critically need to see in order to effectively help the dog learn that alone time is safe through training. And so that food does really muddy up our training. And it also doesn't help from that association.

[00:15:04] So like why? And I really wanna make sure that everybody hears this loud and clear. As a positive reinforcement trainer for well over 20 years, I will daily shout from the mountaintops that using food, particularly in training an behavior, uhhuh is the most efficient and effective means to acquiring those behaviors.

[00:15:28] Separation anxiety is a little unique because we can't get the order events right because the food muddies the behavior that we need to be seeing. and, because it serves simply as a distraction. And, when I say distraction and, the dog appearing to be okay I'm, I am the first person to admit I can cry and be anxious while eating my bowl of min chip ice cream.

[00:15:53] And yes. I 

[00:15:57] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: might stop crying even while I'm eating it. I might 

[00:15:59] Malena DeMartini: moment zoom afterwards. Yes, . Oh, absolutely. And so many of these dogs are actually what we, talk about conflicting motivation. They're hardwired to, like food is present, must eat. But that doesn't mean that they aren't experiencing that they are conflicted, they're eating because they are their, instinct tells them to do but that doesn't mean that the anxiety is not present. And, I would venture to say, since we see them turn into howling in other signs of distress within a few moments of finishing that food toy, then yeah, they were not happily consuming.

[00:16:45] They were probably very conflicted at the same time. 

[00:16:49] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And you describe in the book that the trap we would fall into then is the peanut butter isn't delicious enough, so now we need to go to the next level of we're gonna bring out the cheese or whatever is the most enticing. And it just keeps stacking until some dogs are refusing food altogether together because they see it as linked to what's going to be really scary and terrifying.

[00:17:12] Malena DeMartini: Yeah. . Yeah. That is, association is very, powerful. It is one of the most powerful components of, how we navigate the world and how we train dogs and other species. And if the association of food that started out with kibble and then went to canned and then went to peanut butter and then went to cheese, and then went to raw meat and yes.

[00:17:42] Escalation, We are unintentionally, I realize, but we are truly teaching the dog that food and helping them generalize that food is a scary and awful thing. And that is, we can't do that. We can't do that to our. . 

[00:18:02] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Yes. And using rewards, which is typically something like food or play is 

[00:18:09] it's such 

[00:18:09] a integral part of positive reinforcement training.

[00:18:13] People will also get advice on using aversives. If the neighbor is complaining or you've gotten a noise complaint and the landlord says, enough's enough, put an e collar on, or put a bark collar on. Can you briefly share why that could really backfire for people? 

[00:18:31] Malena DeMartini: Yeah. I think the first piece of that is I understand the desperation. Yeah. I really do. And I have talked on the phone through people's tears time and time and time again. That have used. Tools like a bark collar, shock collar, or as also is commonly recommended is the, can fill full of pennies and you throw it against the crates.

[00:19:10] Or bang on the crate. Any of these methodologies that, I'm talking about. The only reason that they can work is that they are instilling either pain or fear in the animal. And first and foremost is that what we really wanna do? That's a question we all have to ask ourselves personally.

[00:19:39] But let's think about, going back to our original discussion about this is panic. This is a phobia, 

[00:19:48] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: involuntary, as you point out, and 

[00:19:50] Malena DeMartini: involuntary, right? And. , if that's the case, and I say I'm going to add a fearful stimulus to an already fear, panic, anxious animal. Wow. do we actually think that is going to help with their fear and anxiety?

[00:20:14] No. In almost every single case we actually make it worse because now alone time is not only hecka scary, it's more scary because I keep getting this horrible electric shock or this terrible noise happens or I get sprayed in the face with something really stinky or like citronella or something.

[00:20:39] And so we're actually causing the problem to be worse. I do wanna make one caveat. because many people will argue with me I put a bark color on my dog, and he stopped vocalizing one when left alone. Yeah, it can help mask certain symptoms, but I want people to remember that dog is, just because he is not vocalizing doesn't mean he's not terrified.

[00:21:09] And so oftentimes what we start to see is, okay, they are no longer vocalizing, which doesn't usually, isn't usually a permanent thing, but sometimes they stop for a little while. So no longer vocalizing, but now urinating and defecating and drooling and trembling and shedding their coats because they're distressed so high.

[00:21:32] So it's not really working. Even if for a temporary amount of time it can reduce the barking. 

[00:21:43] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I've asked you many ways that we don't help our dogs when they're experiencing this level of distress. How would you describe the treatment plans that 

[00:21:51] Malena DeMartini: do work? I think the, treatment plans that do work fall into gentle humane, also very systematic.

[00:22:04] And very gradual. The technical term for the way that we modify this behavior is called systematic desensitization. Nobody needs to ha say that big, long mouthful of of words, but I want to remind people that there are two words there. Yes. Desensitization, which means gradual exposure, but also systematic.

[00:22:31] It is not willy-nilly haphazard. Like today, I'm gonna do a minute. Tomorrow I'm gonna do four minutes. And. , these decisions are actually very nuanced as to how to systematically introduce the dog and expose them to the scary thing, which in this case is alone time. Without them experiencing distress.

[00:22:58] And so I think the biggest complaint, if you will, that we get about this appropriate and proper way to work with separation and steady dogs is people, professionals. And average guardians alike will say that, that's too long. That's gonna take too long. I just want to help people remember maybe looking at our, human condition as an example.

[00:23:30] If you had a, child or you yourself were experiencing anxiety and depression and other forms of mental illness or distress, and you went to a counselor, would you say, in four sessions, I need to be done with that. Forever. forever. You need to fix me in four sessions or I'm, outta here.

[00:23:55] Yes. And we just, that isn't how this works for humans or for dogs and, because we love our dogs so, very much I feel we owe it to them to give them this gentle and humane way of helping their welfare and helping them. Psychologically and physiologically. By the way, one of the things that is amazing to me is dogs that have been experiencing distress about alone time for long periods of time.

[00:24:33] The common thing that we start to see is all sorts of gi, all sorts of gastrointestinal upset constant. We start to see constant skin irritations. We start to see immunosuppressed issues. We start. So in other words and, that's gonna be different for every dog, but in other words, yeah. We know as, humans, we know that.

[00:24:59] constant stress results in physical problems. And that is no different for our dogs. And so I think we just, we owe it to them to be kind, to be patient and to let them make progress based on what they are able to handle successfully. So that was the long way of saying the, protocol that we use today to, work with these dogs is both gradual and intentional.

[00:25:35] Purposeful and systematic. And I think it's one of the reasons that I, often encourage people to work with a professional, whether you work with them a little bit or for daily or just a couple times, whatever it is. It, took me minimally, 10 years of my career to understand how to implement this.

[00:26:02] And it's a 14 or 15 week program that has spans over more than a hundred of hours of, education that we teach our certified separation anxiety trainers. Yes. So I don't expect the average new or experienced dog, guardian to understand some of the details and nuances of how to implement that gradual, systematic, purposeful process of exposure.

[00:26:32] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And those certified separation anxiety trainers, the CSAT s they are doing all that education so you don't have to and help you develop that plan. So you explained that it's 20 to 30 minutes a day. Do you say five days a week?

[00:26:46] What, how 

[00:26:48] for the pet parent. So that is doable. The suspended absence piece is challenging. And short term, this is fixable. That's right. And you mentioned. Coat problems and gastro problems like skin problems and upset stomachs. Doodles are renowned for having both of those chronically and poodles, which they are at least half of really run pretty high on the anxiety scale.

[00:27:16] Yeah. Just genetically. And so that's something really great to keep in mind as further motivation to tackle this. I highly recommend to trainers and pet parents who wanna learn more about separation anxiety, your new book. But I know you have two programs that if somebody's already experiencing this and they want to get a solution with their.

[00:27:41] you have mission possible, and I think that's a on demand course that you could do in their own time. 

[00:27:48] Malena DeMartini: Is that right? That's right. It is a self-paced online course. It's very comprehensive. I was so loath about the terrible information that people could randomly find on the internet that I'm like, I've gotta create a program where people can at least get the right information.

[00:28:10] Yes. I developed that program in 2016, I think, or 17. And my intention was to help your average pat parent who didn't know where to turn and what to do with their separation anxiety dog, to give them a, clear, clean plan, an approach to explain as many of those nuances that I could possibly explain.

[00:28:41] And the, program is lifetime access. You can go at your own pace, and in that course, there are places that you can post comments, ask questions, et cetera. Oh, and I and a couple of my colleagues answer those seven days a week, 365 days a year. It's too much. That's not allowed. people aren't just, I know how isolating this can feel.

[00:29:08] And I don't want people to feel alone. And so I, I want people to know they can reach out for support in that course. And even if they don't, even if they're shy and they don't ask questions, we have such a history of so many comments and questions that it's, you don't feel alone there cuz you can hear everybody else's experiences, both their experiences of feeling sad and frustrated as well as their celebratory moments that we see so many of.

[00:29:41] So I really I think it's a very comprehensive program that can help not just the pet parents. What we found after I launched this program was that about half of the people that sign up for Mission possible are dog trainers understand why. Yes. Didn't expect it. I didn't. It was kinda a surprise to me.

[00:30:09] But it's a great way as a dog professional to see how we deliver our information to your average dog guardian and how the process works for them and so on and so forth. So I welcome dog professionals to take advantage of it as a little small foray into how to work with plants.

[00:30:30] Yes. Yeah. 

[00:30:31] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: And if a family really wants a customized plan, as you said, meeting the dog, who they are and where they're at and your C SATs even can observe the dog virtually and give you insight when you're outside, et cetera, how would they work with a CSAT trainer? It's usually virtually correct. 

[00:30:52] Malena DeMartini: it's a hundred percent virtually.

[00:30:55] And I have a funny story about that. I was telling someone this the other day. I moved to exclusively virtual work in about 2009. And I, stopped doing in person. I got a lot of pushback and a lot from people in our industry. Yeah. And I got a lot of pushback from, my clients too you have to come meet my dog and me in person.

[00:31:25] And I was like, actually, this is actually more efficient and effective as a means of working with separation. and I'm never one to say I told you but I'm gonna say I told you. So in this case, when the pandemic hit and everyone was scrambling, like, how do we switch to virtual? I was like, I don't know.

[00:31:46] I've been doing this for 10 years. I don't know what you guys, I master that 

[00:31:52] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: just now your clients know how to use Zoom and they don't need to be taught, 

[00:31:56] Malena DeMartini: that's exactly right. I know that was a game changer for sure. But yes, it is all done virtually. And the way that CSAT s work is we start out with an initial assessment where we observe the dog.

[00:32:13] We have a meeting and a conversation usually via Zoom about what we've observed, how we're going to start and proceed. all, the things in that initial assessment. Yeah. And then based on that initial assessment, the CSAT writes the very first just one day of training exercises. And the training exercises are what we as csat s call missions Uhhuh

[00:32:40] So you get your first mission based on that initial assessment Now, After completing that first mission, the pet parent is asked and required to put some notes in. And those notes are what we read and thereby base the very next day's training on so this is not a cookie cutter plan.

[00:33:09] Not, even, we're not even giving you like three or four days in advance. We're like, we give yet today. And tomorrow is a hundred percent based on what the dog experienced today. And so it's a very interactive process and one of the wonderful ways that we're able to do this is by using shared documents and things.

[00:33:33] because we're, gathering so much information, we actually tend to do all sorts of charts and graphs and figure out some pretty important elements of what is positively or negatively impacting that animal. Some dogs are doing great at nine o'clock in the morning, but they're struggling at 5:00 PM Okay.

[00:33:59] We would've never have pinned that down had we not been tracking that data very carefully. So we really lean into that data and, one of my idols wonderful woman named Dr. Susan Friedman. Talks about collecting that data and using it in such a way that we are able to dynamically pivot and adjust on a day-to-day basis.

[00:34:25] Whereas if we didn't have that data, we would be doing retroactive oh, I get, let's make thi, oh, we have to wait and see. Let me know next week how it went. . 

[00:34:37] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Yes, , which is something that virtual lends itself to the traditional trainer coming to your home. Are you going to a class? Couldn't do and just their presence would change the whole dynamic.

[00:34:51] You want to actually see what they're like. They're experiencing isolation in buildup. From there, I see CSAT share on social media with permission from their clients, like the victories of the dog just sprawled out on their backs down to asleep and been like, this is 32 minutes in where they couldn't go two minutes alone and just, you can feel the C SATs like the victory is shared with the pet parent and how close they get.

[00:35:23] Malena DeMartini: Absolutely. We. I think one of the big pushbacks that I had in 2009 when I went virtually is you just can't build a relationship with your clients. And I would say it's exactly the opposite. And we are an intrinsic part of our client's family. Yes. We work with them five days a week yes. And so we know about the weddings and the births and the all the things that are happening because we're so closely working with the client and we do, we are a team and we celebrate even the smallest little victories together. And I, tell brand new students you're not gonna believe me, but later you can say, oh my gosh, you were. There is nothing more riveting than watching a dog sleep when you do this work, , you're like he's still sleeping.

[00:36:21] Oh, now he's on his back. This is the most exciting thing ever. I need popcorn rive. It is like the, joy that it brings to not just dog mom or dog dad. But to us, like it's the most rewarding work that I could ever imagine doing. 

[00:36:42] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Oh, we're so lucky that you were doing it for us. And for the leadership that you've given on this topic, I know that you have a discount for our listeners if they want to enjoy your program mission possible.

[00:36:58] Can you share that 

[00:36:58] Malena DeMartini: for us? Yes. And I think it's easy to remember. It is Doodle22, as in the year doodle22, and that'll be available for you. It gives you over a little, over 50% off of our program. It's already really affordable, but it makes it extremely affordable. And, remember there's lifetime access.

[00:37:24] It's not a recurring fee, and you can still ask questions and comments if you're struggling a month or two into it. 

[00:37:31] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Oh Elena, I can share personally, I'll be doing that investment because I appreciate that you welcome trainers doing it as I am always sending those clients to sets. I would love to understand more like what they're working on and how they're working together.

[00:37:51] Malena DeMartini: I really want people to understand that the, best way to work with a separation anxiety dog is to not do it alone.

[00:38:02] And I don't mean just a trainer, the village that you can and should create. That may include dog professionals, like trainers and dog walkers or dog sitters, but I think it should also, and professionals also, like you're a veterinarian or even a veterinarian behaviorist. But also in that village should be your friends, your family, your coworkers, your neighbors.

[00:38:31] Anybody that's willing to take a piece of that journey with you. Should be in your village. There are so many creative solutions, by the way, to, to managing and suspending those absences and neighbors and friends and family. They don't have to do it every day. Once a week when you need to go to a doctor's appointment and a grocery store and your kid's soccer game or whatever, hey, the college kid around the corner probably would love to eat out of your refrigerator and get your free wifi.

[00:39:05] Right? Why not? Can text on their phone? Your doctor relaxed. Yes. Ah, and so create that village and help yourself to not feel so isolated by having people that can support you in a empathetic and kind way. Helping you, helping your dog, and keep that whole village as part of your journey.

[00:39:33] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I think that's beautiful. While you're supporting your dog through this, you, the human side of the leash deserve support as. . They really do. 

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