In today's episode, you're going to enjoy part one of my interview with author Simone Mueller. This dog trainer is joining us from Germany. And discussing her new book. Don't eat that. And today's part one of our interview. We're going to focus on why some of our doodles. Can be more genetically predispositioned to scavenging, looking for trash on walks or finding that chicken wing.
[00:00:28] In the bushes when you're trying to take them on their afternoon stroll.
[00:00:35] Make sure to catch next week's part too, where she dives into more detail
[00:00:40] I want it works and what doesn't. And teaching your dog, how to safely be around trash and food that isn't safe for them.
[00:00:49] Sure to catch next. Week's part two. Where Simone walks us through what works and what doesn't.
[00:00:56] When training your doodle. Not to scavenge unhealthy foods.
[00:01:00] And stay away from dangerous items in the trash or on walks.
[00:01:57] You might call this doodle Fiona, a cavadoodle or a cavapoo. But this week, we call her the doodle of the week. Congratulations, Fiona. I have personally been watching Fiona thrive as a student in the doodle pro Academy's zoomies to Zen course. She has the most phenomenal mama. Who is here to share a little bit about why Fiona is so special.
[00:02:25] Congratulations.
[00:02:27] Heather W: My cavadoodle Fiona is the best doodle because she is equal parts, sweetness and sassiness. She also treats me like royalty because if I'm going to leave one room, she announces my arrival in the other. Either that or she's trying to get rid of anything that might be of danger to me. Either way, she's precious.
[00:02:51] You have an extra special doodle in your life. Make sure to apply for doodle of the week thedoodlepro.com/doodleoftheweek.
[00:03:02] Let's dive into this episode as it's a great one and be sure to catch next week's part two of this interview where Simone walks us through what works and what doesn't. When training your doodle, not to scavenge, unhealthy or dangerous foods. Or items in the trash or on walks.
[00:03:24] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I am just so thrilled to welcome all the way from Germany training expert and author of the Predation Substitute series Simone Mueller, she is here to talk to us about one of her latest books called Don't Eat That If you have a Dog who Loves to Scarf Down what Garbage people have discarded or just gets into things that isn't good for them.
[00:03:51] Simone has some great games and a fabulous approach in her book. Don't Eat that then. I'm really excited to share with our listeners. Hello, how are you?
[00:04:02] Author Simone Mueller: Hi Corin. Thank you, . I'm fine for
[00:04:05] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: you. Wonderful. I'm so glad that you're joining us from Germany and I know we have a time difference, so I really appreciate it.
[00:04:13] Author Simone Mueller: Thank you very much for the invitation. I've been, I enjoying here.
[00:04:16] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I'd love to dig into some doodle quandaries that a lot of our doodle parents.
[00:04:23] find. You mentioned that retrievers in particular. So we have a lot of golden doodles and labradoodles, the retrievers in particular have a high need for scavenging.
[00:04:35] Author Simone Mueller: Yes. This is a very interesting thing that I came across when I did some research for the book. I ha didn't know that before.
[00:04:44] Labradors in particular. But it applies for all the gand dog breeds. Not all the gand dog breeds, but the Labradors, the golden retriever, the retriever treats breeds. They have a missing part of a certain gene. And yes, it's fascinating. Yes, it is. This affects appetite and satiety.
[00:05:08] Is it the right pronunciation? If
[00:05:10] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: they're
[00:05:10] Author Simone Mueller: satiated, if they feel full. Exactly. And this makes them great assistance and guiding dogs because they can motiv be motivated with treats very easily. Where for other treats you have to become really creative. the retrievers. Yeah. Go with the come, bring it on.
[00:05:31] And this also affects their appetite, so this makes it yeah, like they do not feel when they are full basically. And this of course is a problem when we come to scavenging because they feel always hungry. And even if you do not have a dog that has this gene issue this is also something that I advise my dog owners when they come to me in the very first
[00:05:58] session when we, talk about the dog in general and we do not do a lot of training yet. I tell them, okay, do the bed check that we talked about and then from now on, you give it a try to feed your dog a little bit before you go on your walk. It doesn't have to be love. . Yeah. Yeah. And so when you think about it, most people feed their dogs in the mornings, then they go to work, and then they come home in the afternoon, they take their dog out and this is the last thing that they do before the next feeding time.
[00:06:30] So by then, when you take your dog on your walk, they are already quite hungry. And if you feed them a little bit, it doesn't have to be much because we don't want bloat to happen. And yeah. So just the, palm of your hand, if you give them some carbo hydrates might be ideal. Maybe a cookie or some banana chips or whatever.
[00:06:56] 30 minutes before you take them on their walks, they do not feel hungry anymore, and it might be easier for them to refrain from eating the pizza on the ground. When they, yeah. .
[00:07:08] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: A lot of people go home during lunchtime and either they or they hire a dog walker to take their dog out for a walk at lunchtime, and that's pretty far from breakfast and dinner.
[00:07:20] And that, could be setting themself up to be even more motivated for scavenging.
[00:07:25] Author Simone Mueller: Exactly. Yeah. Just a simple reason. They're hungry. Yeah. I
[00:07:29] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: forget the scientific term. You might be able to help me of dogs who are drawn to eating forbidden items, including poop. So we have some dogs who are really drawn to that and that's not something that we want to be putting in our home and giving them a chance to meet that need.
[00:07:48] But you have a creative way of training with that too.
[00:07:52] Author Simone Mueller: You mean the poop eating? Yes. .
[00:07:55] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: I know. Yeah. Here's the term port. I'm trying to think of the scientific medical form for the condition, but it'll come to me after we're done. . Yeah.
[00:08:04] Author Simone Mueller: No, I don't come up with it now. That's okay. . Yeah. That it is still not clear why dogs do that.
[00:08:11] It might be a gut issue that they are missing some microbiome in their gut and they try to, especially with young dogs, with puppies, they try to put this good bacteria into their own gut by eating the pool of another animal that already has those bacteria. So getting the, good stuff, the good bacteria into their own guts. Other dogs simply like it like the taste. I think. also different if it's the, poo of, for example, horses or sheep. And other, dogs for example, because horse poo, sheep poo has a lot of fermented and grass and vitamins that are very easy to access for the dog's stomach.
[00:09:08] So they might put some vitamin B basically into their diet by doing this. Interesting. But on the other hand, it also might be that they simply like the taste. We don't know for sure. And there you can give it a try. Maybe it works for some dogs, it works for some it doesn't. You can try stinky.
[00:09:30] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: For example, yes, I thought this was clever. Can you give examples of what you listed that could be motivating instead? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:39] Author Simone Mueller: So,
[00:09:39] stinky cheese is something that you can, give a try or fermented food. Also, sour crowd, for example, depends on in which country you live. Cabbage that has been fermented.
[00:09:52] Lots of dogs really enjoy eating that stinky stuff. And then here again, we have an outlet. So they had it okay. They didn't have the real stuff, but they had something that came close and it might be okay for them to not do it again. But as with everything I, always first advised to go to the vet and have it checked because it's not a normal behavior.
[00:10:16] It is always a little bit get it checked out. And if your vet says, no, there is no issue, then go on and try to replace it by Yeah. Stinky cheese, for example. Yes. . And look if it works or not.
[00:10:31] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Yeah. Wonderful. We're joking a little bit about a gross option that dogs could get into, but sometimes, especially if you've been playing the game of they get something for forbidden and then you freak out and get scary and they scarf it and swallow hole a lot of doodles, swallow socks hole, underwear hole.
[00:10:56] I had this one client, they dropped off and we immediately went for a walk and it was a really rigorous walk. We didn't even come inside. And he was a giant sh noodle and he starts gagging. and I look over and he vomited his mom's underwear hole. Gotcha. And poor thing.
[00:11:14] I'm so glad it came that direction instead of obstruction. I have a client, he is an Aussie doodle, he is the best, his name's Keanu, and he has a taste for his homes, landscaping rocks. It's turned into a game when he was bored, he tossed them around, but then he swallowed a couple of those little rocks and $8,000 construction surgery.
[00:11:38] And even worse was the fear that his family had to go through of losing him. Yeah. And the risk that was for him. Yeah.
[00:11:49] Author Simone Mueller: I'm, also a little bit unsure why the dogs show these behaviors. Yeah. My best bet would be that it feels good for them because eating feels good.
[00:12:05] in general. Yes. But especially for a Labrador or a golden retriever because they were brought to grab and the next step on, on this ladder is swallowing things down and when they are excited or when that arousal is high they go for behaviors that are intrinsically reinforcing, which means they feel good to them.
[00:12:30] And here we go. I think the socks smell nice for a dog. . Yeah. They're usually
[00:12:37] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: the dirty socks.
[00:12:39] Author Simone Mueller: They're always the dirty socks, the clean ones. They are not attractive to dirty underwear. The dirty socks. Yes. This is what the dogs go for. I think it, it feels cozy for them because they smell like you and they want to be close to you.
[00:12:53] And yeah. But I, don't have a, real watertight explanation, but what do you think from your prof? Experience with these types of dogs, why do they show this behavior?
[00:13:05] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Sometimes it is similar to what Keanu did, where when Keanu has worked with me, I have landscaping rocks and he doesn't have any desire to play with those.
[00:13:15] But he's amongst other dogs and he has a lot of like outlets for his energy. And when he was at home and he started doing it bored, his family would rightfully feel like panicked because we just had a surgery for that. We know how dangerous this is. And it became a game of chase and he would scarf and get possessive of them.
[00:13:36] So I think we can reinforce it when we, oh no, you could if you swallow that sock, it's dangerous. Or, oh, that's my underwear, that's gross. Or they get into feminine products in the trash can so I think we can reinforce it in that way, but so many. when they're home alone and they don't seem distressed about being home alone.
[00:13:57] It does just seem innately like satisfying for them to swallow a soccer underwear on their own. Yeah. Yeah. My first step is management. Would you do your same protocol just like you do with some of the foods of them looking to you when they see the dirty sock or whatever, and or even identifying to you when you get further and more advanced that it's there, do you think a similar don't eat that would work with those kinda
[00:14:30] Author Simone Mueller: items?
[00:14:31] I think for just the, situation that you just mentioned, your door goes and grabs an old sock that is lying around in the bathroom and runs through the whole house. I, wouldn't go for the whole protocol because the, core games of the book are really. You need to put energy into training this.
[00:14:52] It's not something that you can train in one or two sessions and it's a lot of work. I have to really do some expectation management here. Yes. If there's a lot of work. And I wouldn't go for this in, the house. I would train a solid swap. That's what I do with trade. Yes. Yeah, yeah.
[00:15:11] I think this is , not that hard to train and it's, it works quite quickly and your dog should learn that they never lose out, that it always they, get something which is nice for them. And I think this would be my go-to a swap and not chasing the dog because chasing again is fun and then they make it game of chase out of it and they want your attention and you chasing them around.
[00:15:38] music: Yeah. .
[00:15:39] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: Yeah. And what do you think too, pep parents that say, if I'm trading or swapping, I've just taught them to go get those forbidden items. I've reinforced them taking.
[00:15:52] Author Simone Mueller: Yes, that's true for clever dogs. That's true. They learn that, oh, there is a sock on the ground, let's get the sock.
[00:15:58] And then I get nice treat and yeah it, is true. They are clever and but to be honest, I they then have this expectation of you getting them something so they will not swallow the stock anymore. Yeah. So it is still a wind situation, and to be honest, I'd rather have a dog that is clever and.
[00:16:20] Tiki. Okay. I get the sock and then I get my treat. Then having a dog that runs off with a sock and swallows it down as so as, as fast as they can. And as you said, it's a lot of management. Close the door, or by yourself. A good bin where you can put in your, there's a
[00:16:35] music: leg, your laundry. . Tell
[00:16:39] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: your husband to put their socks in the hamper
[00:16:41] music: with lip.
[00:16:42] Exactly. , my
[00:16:44] Author Simone Mueller: Might be the best teacher for your And save your
[00:16:47] music: marriage. .
[00:16:49] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: It's hardest with the 13 year old boys.
[00:16:51] When we were talking about predation behaviors. How do you see that correlate or different from innately like herding traits?
[00:17:04] Author Simone Mueller: You mean hurting for a, about a colli or what do you mean? Yeah. We
[00:17:08] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: have a lot of old English sheep dogs and herding mixes in our doodles.
[00:17:15] Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. It's, yes, but then a lot of people are really surprised that they're hurting their children and nipping at them.
[00:17:25] music: Yeah. This is yeah, ,
[00:17:29] Author Simone Mueller: I heard, I hear this a lot, that the sheep dog is now hurting the kids. And I say, yeah, they have been bred for this for about 300 years, , and now we don't want that anymore, so please leave it be
[00:17:43] Yeah. So basically the what herding breeds enjoy. And what they are bred for is stalking the, stock that I just talked about in this document game. Yeah. Which means I, in border college it's called the eye giving the eye when they intensely watch the sheep. And then we have a chase, which is basically the outrun.
[00:18:09] The, hunting, the predatory behavior was developed into hurting behavior. But the underlying emotions that the dog has are still the same. So we can redirect these issues by directing, hunting behavior or
[00:18:29] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: predatory behavior. So you can use the same kind of method with the herding Yes.
[00:18:34] Traits. That's wonderful. Yes. Yeah that's, really helpful. I'm curious, as I'm telling you the trends I'm seeing in the states with doodles how many different oodles or doodles and what do you see as the trends in Germany?
[00:18:49] Author Simone Mueller: I see not so many to be honest. Yeah. I was in Scotland in 2018 and this was the first time that I saw a cockapoo in reality,
[00:18:59] So I said I heard about them, but I have never seen them. And then I was like, whoa, this is a Cockapoo . And now in Germany they, are becoming more frequent, so I see them more often. But I have to say, not so much in my doc training school, I see them a lot as puppies, but then as other dogs, not so often.
[00:19:22] I don't know. Why?
[00:19:25] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: That's fascinating. Thank you. I appreciate that I recall you had a freebie for our listeners, do you mind sharing a little about it?
[00:19:34] Author Simone Mueller: Of course. Yeah. But I have to say the freebie is not about scavenging. The freebie that I have on my website is about iation stuff. So about if you have a dog that loves to chase.
[00:19:47] basically. And I think a lot of listeners might have the problem too. . What I have on my website currently is the stalking game, which is a game for dogs that like to watch things. For example, watch moving other animals. Yes. Moving animals. Yes. So for example, birds or wildlife, deer, rabbits.
[00:20:12] Yeah. And what the, problem that we dog owners have with this behavior is that the dogs are often very impulsive. So they see something and they run off. They chase straight away. And this leaves us with always walking around highly alert, is there something to hunt? Yes or no?
[00:20:32] And the stocking game is the first step of teaching the dogs calmness and impulse control in the presence of wildlife. So that the, big game is that the big goal, sorry, is that your dog instead of impulsively chasing off stands and watches this other animal, and despite you time to put your dog on a leash or to redirect or Yeah.
[00:20:59] Simply to react. Yeah. And the first step is, Taught with a nice little game that lots of dogs enjoy which is called the stalking game, where you basically teach your dog to hunt with their eyes. But not with their feet, if that makes sense. .
[00:21:18] Corinne Gearhart- The Doodle Pro™: That does make sense. I will put the link to that in our show notes.
[00:21:22] Our listeners can download that freebie. I appreciate that
[00:21:26] Sure to catch next. Week's part two. Where Simone walks us through what works and what doesn't.
[00:21:33] When training your doodle. Not to scavenge unhealthy foods.
[00:21:37] And stay away from dangerous items in the trash or on walks. .
[00:21:41] Heather Webb: Thanks for joining me on this episode of the Doodle Pro Podcast. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. And I invite you to follow me on Instagram at the Doodle Pro for behind the scenes peaks at all of the adorable doodles I work with daily.
