How to Choose a Dog Trainer and Get Your Dog to Listen Outside (Stop Jumping & Distraction Training)| Jean Donaldson Part Two

In Part Two of my conversation with Jean Donaldson, members of The Doodle Pro® Honor Society were live in the room asking real training questions about distraction, jumping, dog parks, and choosing the right trainer.

How do you choose a dog trainer you can trust? Why does your dog listen inside but ignore you outside? And what does “balanced training” actually mean?

We break it all down.

How to Choose a Dog Trainer

Not all trainers are created equal. We discuss why certification matters, what organizations to look for, and why transparency about motivation is essential. If a trainer avoids explaining how they reinforce behavior, that’s a red flag.

We also unpack common phrases like “balanced training,” “it’s about energy,” or “I don’t use food,” and what those may signal. Positive reinforcement is not permissive. It is structured, evidence-based, and designed to change behavior without unwanted side effects.

Why Your Dog Listens Inside But Not Outside

If your Doodle knows “sit” in the kitchen but forgets it outside, they’re not being stubborn.

They’re distracted.

Training with distractions requires gradual steps. Instead of jumping from calm indoor practice straight to the sidewalk with other dogs, you build difficulty in layers. This is what trainers call proofing, but in everyday language, it simply means helping your dog succeed in progressively harder environments.

We talk through how to train a distracted dog and why skipping steps leads to frustration.

Stop Jumping Without Damaging the Relationship

Jumping is common, especially with social, enthusiastic Doodles.

Instead of focusing only on “don’t jump,” we discuss teaching an alternate behavior. If jumping is illegal, what’s legal? Sit? Down? Both can work for real-life greeting manners.

Dogs must do something. Clear structure helps them choose the right behavior.

Are Dog Parks Bad?

Dog parks are often labeled dangerous, but are they always a bad idea?

We explore when dog parks can be appropriate, what normal dog play actually looks like, and why growling and mouthing aren’t automatically aggression. Understanding canine body language helps reduce unnecessary fear.

Dog parks aren’t one-size-fits-all. The right environment depends on your individual dog.

Resource Guarding and Teaching Fetch

We also answer Honor Society member questions about resource guarding and teaching fetch without creating conflict.

Sometimes dogs are simply “running their software.” Not every behavior needs suppression. Clear structure, gradual shaping, and understanding motivation go much further than force.

If you’re looking for science-based dog training that protects your relationship and builds real-world reliability, this episode is for you.

Be sure to listen to Part One for the foundation on dominance myths and anthropomorphism.

And if you’d like deeper implementation, live Q&A access, and structured monthly training focus, you can learn more about The Doodle Pro® Honor Society at thedoodlepro.com/society.

Doodles are different. Wonderfully so.

Corinne Gearhart is the founder of The Doodle Pro®, a science-based training platform helping Doodle parents raise calmer, well-mannered dogs using positive reinforcement. She is the host of The Doodle Pro® Podcast and author of Your Doodle’s Daily Schedule Blueprint™.

📘 Get the Doodle Schedule Blueprint:
https://thedoodlepro.com/doodle-schedule-bonus/

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Transcript

Welcome back to the Doodle Pro Podcast. Last week in part one of my conversation with  Jean Donaldson, we unpacked dominance myths, anthropomorphism, and how misunderstanding normal dog behavior can send us down the wrong path. If you haven't listened to part one yet, I highly recommend going back and starting there.

It really lays the foundation for everything we build on today. In this episode, we go practical. We talk about how to choose a trainer, red flags to watch for what words like balanced and energy can sometimes signal dog parks proofing behaviors like sit when your doodle suddenly forgets everything outside and how to think more clearly about what's actually happening in front of you. And towards the end of this conversation, you'll hear questions directly from members of the Doodle Pro Honors Society who are live in the room during this [00:01:00] recording, and got to ask Jean their own training questions in real time.

I am so grateful for this thoughtful, curious, doodle parent community. Let's dive into part two.

Speaker: Doodle dogs are easy to fall in love with, but living with one can feel overwhelming if you don't have the right guidance. I'm Corinne Gearhart, known as the Doodle Pro, and I help doodle parents build calmer, more connected and more rewarding relationships with their dogs. Using positive science-based training.

I spent years working exclusively with doodles across many different mixes and personalities, and I understand what makes them wonderfully unique and sometimes uniquely challenging. On this podcast, I bring you practical, compassionate guidance along with insights from trusted training, grooming, and veterinary professionals so you can get doodle specific answers that actually fit your real life.

I'm [00:02:00] so glad you're here. Let's help you parent your doodle like a pro.

Corinne Gearhart: Is there anything that you would advise a doodle parent who's looking for a trainer, how to find one that's a good fit? 

Jean Donaldson: Well, you want a trainer who likes doodles.

I confess that when they first came out, I didn't like them. Now you're not alone. Fast forward years later. I quite like them now. Okay. So they, they definitely grew on me and, their cuteness is kind of their superpower, you know? Yeah. So I would say for vetting for any trainer especially somebody with.

You gotta doodle. It's just a, a lot of energy. You wanna find a trainer who's certified, so you wanna go to one of the certifying bodies. P-P-G-I-A-A-B-C the academy. We've got a referral list. You know, find somebody who's. Taken the time to, to get themselves educated and certified rather than they, you know, they self kind of proclaimed as, as a dog trainer, 

Corinne Gearhart: yeah, 

Jean Donaldson: you wanna avoid harsh methods.

There's no need for them. And as [00:03:00] we've been saying, they carry side effects and you don't wanna trade off. Some of that, you know, joy and stuff for a dog who's now got a fear problem because good luck on doing that. That's really tough stuff. Yeah. 

Corinne Gearhart: Yeah. 

Jean Donaldson: So you wanna be careful and, find somebody who likes doodles.

There are still some trainers who make them crazy. And these are trainers, I think generally that, that they don't like activity levels that they don't like. A designer, they don't like that kind of thing. They're biased against and you also wanna find a trainer who's gonna treat you well.

Yeah. It used to be that trainers would kind of guilt trip the owner a lot and say, you're the problem and you've got to be more alpha or strong or what have you. It's not like that. All you have to do is somebody who's gonna be kind to you, kind to your dog. Yeah. Hear what your, priorities are, and fix the problems that you want fixed.

Corinne Gearhart: Yes. 

Jean Donaldson: Not kind of impose their, you know, sort of like, I think you should teach this. 

Corinne Gearhart: And do you kind of touch on some red flag words that people might use to describe their training methods in 

Jean Donaldson: the book? They, they describe their training methods as sort of [00:04:00] somehow magical. Okay. So I'm not transparent, I don't motivate the dog.

I don't use food, I don't use anything. I just kind of talk to the dog in dog language, if it sounds. Kind of, woo mm-hmm. Careful that's often a code for I'm actually gonna hammer your dog to pieces. And that's how I do it. Or if they say Every dog is completely different.

And I reinvent training for each and every dog. Okay, hang on a second. So if you look at what these people are actually doing, they're shocking the crap out of every single dog. So watch out for that kind of weasel, speak that marketing speak. When it sounds like, they're not transparent about motivation or they think there doesn't have to be motivation.

You have to have some sort of force of personality. So if they're saying that you have to have the right energy, careful. Watch out for that. That's brilliant. That red flag, word, energy, it's really, usually it's a code for I'm gonna be harsh. 

Corinne Gearhart: Yes. And balanced.

Jean Donaldson: Balanced. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't I don't limit myself to food or force.

I use it all. 

Corinne Gearhart: [00:05:00] Yes. Or I start with positive and I only use those tools if 

Jean Donaldson: it's 

Corinne Gearhart: needed. 

Jean Donaldson: Yeah. I enforce by hammering the crap outta your dog. Yeah. Well done. Yeah. Yeah. 

Corinne Gearhart: So those tools don't have to be on the table. For your dog to be trained effectively. 

Jean Donaldson: No. No 

Corinne Gearhart: matter what kind of dog you have. 

Jean Donaldson: Yeah, yeah.

The positive training, in terms of proof of concept, it's something that's been very well vetted. It's been around a long time. It, if you look at bodies, I mean, increasingly all your certifying bodies are saying, you know what? We're not certifying you if you do this or we're taking away your certification if you do this.

And the reason for that is it's been amply demonstrated now that you don't have to do it. 

Corinne Gearhart: Yes, and we don't need to damage our relationships with our dogs. We can still have the same outcomes.

Jean Donaldson: Now we know that that's basically abuse and that's where it's kind of going with dog training. 

Corinne Gearhart: I agree. You see a lot of. Dog training trends follow, parenting trends just a few decades behind. [00:06:00] Yeah. Yeah, 

Jean Donaldson: yeah, 

Corinne Gearhart: A thing that some trainers will recommend against and some vets will recommend against that you would challenge a little bit is dog parks and are they all bad and all an evil option for our dogs.

Jean Donaldson: Not, not necessarily.

Corinne Gearhart: Yeah, 

Jean Donaldson: I think sometimes, for sure, I think there are dog parks that are very much like the Wild West and there's all Yeah. Sizes and types of dogs and people are not paying attention and so on and it's possibly a bit too much of a free for all. 

Corinne Gearhart: Mm-hmm. 

Jean Donaldson: But in terms of dog parks generally being evil, I'm wondering why I've attended, I don't know, probably 50 or a hundred in this country and around the world, kind of go, just gone and seeing them.

How come I'm not seeing this mayhem that people are describing? If dog parks were universally bad. I've had tremendous luck because what I've seen is people who generally are there, they're generally keeping an eye on their dogs. Their dogs are generally quite pro-social. [00:07:00] They like playing.

And oh, a few things to look for. You want separation by size. You want to definitely have the under 25 pounds and the over in, in different parks. That's important. Mm-hmm. If you're, you wanna also make sure that the dog's in there. You don't wanna bring your dog to a dog park if he doesn't like.

The company of other dogs. Yes. So if your dog is not socialized to dogs, dog parks are not a good idea. But if your dog loves other dogs, it's a great idea.

I'm not as scared off as some people. I worry sometimes that people are. Alarmed at watching dogs be with each other. Mm-hmm.

Because it can look, quote unquote outta control, but they're not in control. They're running, and they're playing and they go up their mouths on each other and they're chasing and they're sometimes having a conflict over a resource, or they're arguing or they're mobbing.

The new dog that came in, the new dog is briefly like, Ooh, that's a bit much. And then he is fine. And people have, people find that alarming. We find that a bit too much and so therefore we avoid that. But it's a bit. Sad. It's kinda like saying, [00:08:00] you know, I'm an introvert, therefore everybody's an introvert.

Therefore, nobody should ever go to a cocktail party, you know? Mm. I don't think it's one size fits all. Yeah. So if you have a dog that loves to play with other dogs, I'm hard pressed to believe that dog parks are therefore not good. 

Corinne Gearhart: And I agree with you in deepening your understanding of dog body language.

Because if we're looking at it from like a human lens, seeing teeth at all. 

Jean Donaldson: Oh, yeah. 

Corinne Gearhart: It's a hard no hearing growling is, 

Jean Donaldson: oh yeah, we, yeah. Oh, we're wired as prey species. We have this thing in the academy, affectionately call it FOD, fear of dogs. Kind of like we're wired to find, you know, cheesecake.

Tasty. We're also wired to fear animals with pointy teeth. And when those animals with pointy teeth are around each other and threatening to use them or using them, and dogs argue just like us. I mean, people on social media argue and we sometimes write a letter to the editor and we sometimes swear another driver in traffic.

And we do all those things that are [00:09:00] normal kinds of things. You argue with your spouse, you get mad. As long as we're not harming each other, as long as we're not pulling a knife and we're not shooting at each other, we're not assaulting each other. Generally speaking, human conflict resolution is fine.

It's nonviolent. Dogs also have conflicts. They have conflicts among themselves. The way they deal with their conflicts is they growl and snarl and snap and they bite with greatly inhibited force. To say that if a dog does that, he shouldn't be around other dogs is very much like me saying, Corinne, I have seen you occasionally on social media be a little bit testy.

No more humans for you or we're gonna go ahead and euthanize you because you argued with your spouse. You know what I mean? I worry about people saying, well, you know. Dog can't be around other dogs because he sometimes growl another dog off his toy, you know?

Mm-hmm. I think we're then we're, we're letting our own sort of comfort where we should be sort of addressing. Well, isn't it interesting? I find dog, normal, dog species, normal behavior to be [00:10:00] alarming. Mm-hmm. And we want to be empathetic with people, but we also want to let them know that that's kind of normal for dogs.

Corinne Gearhart: There is another human kind of social pressure I see that mirrors when I used to take my kids to the playground. They're like, I'm a good parent. So I step in if my kid starts climbing the slide, to me, that's a child appropriate like activity. They're, you know, using the equipment in different ways and stepping in that way or judgment.

If my dog is. Getting a little humpy or use as being more vocal that I'm like a bad dog parent and it's mortifying and we're never going back there, as opposed to helping my dog out. 

Jean Donaldson: I completely hear you. That that sort of, you know, it is, people are trying to be hyper responsible.

Yeah. They're trying to have their dog under control. Same 

Corinne Gearhart: on walks. 

Jean Donaldson: Yeah. Yeah. That somehow it is, like you say, it's 

Mortifying, mm-hmm. And. Yeah. And that can definitely get in the way of [00:11:00] people letting dogs kind of do normal level stuff. Now we do wanna be responsible if your dog bites in an injurious fashion, so he sends other dogs to the veterinarian when he argues, or your dog is afraid of other dogs, then it absolutely is the responsible thing to maybe not have that dog at a dog park, or not even not have that dog around other dogs.

Mm-hmm. But. That doesn't mean normal the norm. We should be, you know, clamping down on the normal stuff. But I take your point that people do wanna do the right thing, and the social pressure from other owners. If there's one owner in the park who thinks that it's wrong for dogs to occasionally grow at each other, that owner can then infect everybody with the ooh, and we're all gonna try and, you know, make sure that that person is happy.

Corinne Gearhart: And on the other side of the spectrum, I do interrupt dogs. In their play and give breaks. And I don't subscribe to the let them work it out at all costs. 

Jean Donaldson: Oh, of course. Yes. No, of course not. No. Right. 

Corinne Gearhart: We're there to help our pups. Yes. 

If you're [00:12:00] listening to this and thinking, this is the kind of conversation I want more of, this is exactly what we do inside the Doodle Pro honor society. We take these big ideas, proofing, enrichment, normal dog behavior, teaching alternate behaviors, and turn them into daily doable practice with your own doodle.

Next week we're kicking off our enrichment challenge inside the community. In just a couple weeks. Bunny the button talking. She poodle and her mom will be live with us. Members can literally be in the room and ask questions if you want deeper learning and real time support, I'd love to see you inside.

You can learn more@thedoodlepro.com slash society.

Corinne Gearhart: One student kind of taking a left turn and [00:13:00] going to your book a little bit, one student loved your explanation on how to teach fetch.

Because you kind of talk about, for some dogs it is hardwired and for some we light it up in them and Right. Teach it. So she's using multiple balls to teach, fetch to try to prevent the guarding, but her dog instead is starting to feel a little confused and is gathering multiple balls and not knowing, is is not catching onto this game and shaping can you share a little bit more detail and you talk about guarding and mine, but you also get into more about fetch in culture Clash. 

Jean Donaldson: Couple of things. One is if the point is enrichment, letting the dog gather balls might be just letting that dog run some software that that dog wants to run. And I'm not sure I would necessarily say, oh my God, this is the end.

Not bad. Letting dogs run their software when it's not hurting anybody is not a bad thing. Trying to prevent [00:14:00] dogs from running the software that we, kind of programmed into them is generally speaking, not healthy. Mm-hmm. So if the dog wants to gather a bunch of balls.

It can be an activity if they wanna play fetch. There are other ways to get dogs, you know, 'cause border Collies quite can famously do this too, which is they bring the ball back and like, I want, I'm dying for you to throw it, but if you reach for it, then that hits this other, this other software kicks in, which is don't touch my stuff.

Right? So you can definitely teach them a thing, which is you could drop the ball and then back up. So you basically teach it as a trick initially. So you first of all teach backup as a trick without any toys present. Then you teach the dog to backup for a toy toss. Okay. In the house, and then you start bringing it into the fetch game, which is, I'm not throwing it.

If you want, bring me back the ball. That's all fine and dandy. I'm not even reaching for it until you back up. Okay. And then the dog backs up, does it down, and then you redo it. So you get a ritual like that going and that sort of a tidier way to do it. The multiple balls isn't working.

Corinne Gearhart: When we're talking about DRIs and particularly jumping is something that we work on with our doodles a [00:15:00] lot. I love how you explain. Generalization. And I would love to touch on that a little bit with sit you talk about how that's such a go-to fundamental. 

Jean Donaldson: Yeah. 

Corinne Gearhart: A lot of pet parents are frustrated, sit works beautifully inside, then it all falls apart when we're outside, when they're literally touching grass when they see another dog.

Can you help explain what's going on there? 

Jean Donaldson: Yeah. That's generally speaking what we call it in dog training. We affectionately say you're administering the grade 12 quick quiz to the grade eight student. Mm-hmm. You know, so in other words, you, you got, you know, you're, you're doing training and training is this sort of step-by-step endeavor where you get gradually harder and harder and harder.

And sort of the final level of heart is doing it for a dog who's pro sociable dogs or what have you, doing it in that context. Mm-hmm. If you make too big a jump. If you go from in the house, he's great. If you then assume he knows it. You're getting yourself into trouble because there's not really [00:16:00] knowledge.

All there is increasing levels of difficulty. And what you need to find is the intermediate levels of difficulty. Mm-hmm. Between in the house without distractions and outside with the worst distractions. And so you, there are probably like 10 or 12 little steps that you need to do in between that to distraction proof the dog.

And you can do distractions in the house where you teach the dog to sit, even though I'm throwing toys around. Teach the dog to sit, even though I just came home. Teach the dog to sit, even though I'm holding a treat over your head. Teach the dog to sit now in the driveway. You know, without any distractions around.

Now we're gonna teach him to sit on the sidewalk, but there's nothing around Now we're gonna teach him to sit in the, in the sidewalk with the treats coming from above. Now we're gonna bring in a dog, but he's gonna play with that dog for 10 minutes and be a little bit bored with that dog.

And then we're gonna practice with that dog, so you have these little levels jumps in level of difficulty that are more gradual, and then you can get there. 

Corinne Gearhart: One student asked if I'm trying to teach not to jump, but while I'm doing [00:17:00] this proofing, they go into a down. Do I need to pull them back up into a sit?

I think so 

Jean Donaldson: too. I wouldn't worry about that. Yeah, you know, if you're doing competitive obedience, it's the, it's a huge national tragedy if the dog does a down instead of a sit. But for pet dogs, if they're not jumping, I'd be inclined to, say, okay, if you're not jumping it's fine.

Now, if, you know, some people do absolutely want sit because they wanna then bend over and give the dog the facial proximity, and that might be harder in a down, but if there's not , an overriding reason,, I wouldn't worry about that. 

Corinne Gearhart: Yes. And we're having an alternate behavior that would be comfortable for guests walking in the door that you like.

Jean Donaldson: Yes. Yeah. 

Corinne Gearhart: And we're teaching calm behavior. 

Jean Donaldson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're teaching the dog to do something that you prefer. 

Corinne Gearhart: Yeah. 

Jean Donaldson: In other words, it's legal. Yes. If jumping is illegal, what should he do instead? 

Corinne Gearhart: That's, the crux of so much of what we do. 

Jean Donaldson: Yeah. What? He can't be doing nothing.

He has to exist, so what do you want him to do? 

Corinne Gearhart: Is there anything else on these [00:18:00] topics and with your book that you would like to add to our listeners? 

Jean Donaldson: No, I just, my gratitude for you. I mean, these are, they're asking good questions. You know, these are, you know, this is good stuff, you know, and you know your stuff.

So it's so gratifying to see people that are really trying to do right by their dogs. 

Corinne Gearhart: Yes, we've really invested pet parents that just are hungry to learn and want the best. 10, 15 years with their dog. 

Jean Donaldson: Yeah. 

Corinne Gearhart: I know that we have pet parents listening and Jean has written several books but I highly recommend Culture Clash.

If you want a broader understanding of how your dog works and how training works, a lot of our doodles can struggle with resource guarding. And if you wanna know how to prevent it. Or how to work on it. Mine is fantastic. And for people who are thinking about becoming dog trainers, if this is like lit, a spark hearing from Jean, get in the nitty [00:19:00] gritty.

I can't recommend the Academy for Dog trainers enough. It is known as the Harvard for Dog Trainers for a reason, and congratulations again on the 25th year. 

Jean Donaldson: Thank you so much.

If you enjoyed this conversation, make sure you listen to part one of my interview with Gene Donaldson. Together these two episodes give you a powerful framework for understanding your doodles behavior, and how to train effectively. Without damaging your relationship. And if you're ready to actually apply what you're learning, come join us inside the Doodle Pro Honor Society.

Our enrichment challenge begins next week. And Bunny the talking She Poodle will be joining us live soon. Members get access to live q and a sessions. Structured training focus each month, and a thoughtful community of doodle parents who truly want to do right by their dogs. You can find the link in the show notes or visit the doodle [00:20:00] pro.com/society.

As always, doodles are different, wonderfully, so I'll see you next week.

Speaker 2: Thanks for spending this time with me. If today's episode helped you, be sure to follow the show so you don't miss what's coming next. I'll see you in the next episode.